Oppoinions wanted, rugged laptop edition.

"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97) 12/19/2019 at 19:52 • Filed to: None

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The boss at the new job gave me the green light to spec out a field laptop for myself. My other coworker has an older toughbook CF-53, but I’m not overly impressed with it. I’ve been poking around the Dell 5424 line. Anyone have any experience or suggestions? We do have the ability to piggy back on a larger entities purchasing contract with Dell, so I might be able to get more for the money over a Panasonic route.

I could go the dell rugged 7220 tablet route for about the same money, but using that toughbook so far has confirmed that I think I atill want a real keyboard/pad to type on out at remote sites too. Editing config files on a touchscreen doesn’t seem like fun. I don’t plant to run over the laptop with my work truck or work underwateer, so anything in “semi rugged” category ought to be enough. If it’s a severe rain event, I’m getting out of there in the truck anyway and not working on a weather station that’s a 12ft metal tube with a 20ft antenna/lighting rod attached to it or working on a transducer in an arroyo that’s about to flood if it hasn’t already. Must have a sunlight readable display (of which the CF-53's is only sort of readable outside) and a serial port for troubleshooting and programming radios and dataloggers. It might occasionally do some very light GIS work, so I’m thinking a discrete gpu isn’t the worst idea.

I’m thinking an lte modem may not be worthwhile, as they’re pricey and seem to be carrier specific. I’m also getting a work phone with a robust data plan that should work fine tethered as a wifi hotspot for getting onto the web based part of the system out in the boonies (which is how we use the current toughbook). Would there really be an advantage to spending +$200 for a laptop with the lte modem?

I’m still getting used to the new fiscal environment of working for an entity that is actually funded. I’m still in library world mode a bit where I imagined we would probably continue to share the one older toughbook and I would inherit it when my coworker retires next year. Being told to go spec out something new for myself made my day.

Have some festively colored Mazdas for you time:

jminer > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/19/2019 at 20:23

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Toughbooks are crazy overprices now, that Dell should do quite nicely for you. I’ve always loved Thinkpads but they stopped making anything even close to this space several years ago.

Also definitely get a dedicated hotspot, a phone works well in a pinch but a dedicated unit like a Verizon Jetpack is a much better option. In any case a phone is even better than built into the laptop.

It’s definitely an adjustment moving from a price-conscious organization to one that isn’t.  I’ve made that move and it’s hard as hell to ever go back.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > jminer 12/19/2019 at 20:33

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I’ll have to look into a dedicated hotspot. I’ll be getting a phone regardless. I’m not thrilled about the two phones thing. What I really wanted was for them to get me a sim card and service and I’d happily use my dual-sim phone as the device. Unfortunately , the polices don’t have anything along these lines in them.  I could get a stipend for using my personal device and service, but that has some public record implications I’m not willing to live with.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/19/2019 at 21:07

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When I was doing a lot of field work I used an off the shelf HP that cost like $400 so if it got damaged there was a no harm no foul rule. It worked amazingly well and even held up to dust and light rain. 

wkiernan > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/19/2019 at 21:25

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W h a t a r e t h o s e ? W h y w o u l d y o u c a r e a b o u t g e t t i n g p a i d b y y o u r e m p l o y e r t o u s e y o u r c e l l s e r v i c e f o r t h e m ? J u s t c u r i o u s !

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > wkiernan 12/19/2019 at 21:44

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Are you asking what a dual-sim phone is? The idea of the stipend option is to reimburse folks who choose to use their personal service for work. The appeal of that option  it is to avoid carrying two smartphones. That’s a lot of smartphones in a pocket.

jminer > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/19/2019 at 21:45

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So I used to be firmly in the camp of carrying only one phone (my personal) and using it for work. I was forced to carry two at my job and have grown to appreciate the forced segregation. I now have to make a conscious decision to check my work email when it’ s after hours or I’m on vacation instead of it being right there in my face on my primary device.

I have coworkers that killed their personal phone and put everything on the work one but that I won’t do.  My tin foil hat is way too tight to connect all my personal accounts to a device that is controlled by my employer.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 12/19/2019 at 22:07

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That’s an interesting angle I hadn’t considered, albeit probably not one that works here. I don’t know how many off the shelf laptops have serial ports today anyway, much less ones that are current generations of hardware. Something tells me $400 laptop ain’t going to be doing a little light GIS or computational photogrammetry work from time- to- time, considering that software isn’t exactly snappy on my workstation class hardware in the office.

As a bigger problem, the realities of public sector purchasing means that I couldn’t just go get another burner laptop when something happened. I’m going feel pretty comfortable saying laptops are not an acceptable use of p-card purchasing, which is the only way we can buy anything without approved vendors and a sometimes glacially slow PO approval process . We’re already bending enough rules in that our field devices are completely off domain.. . I would be looking at a weeks to months long purchasing process to get another one when something happened.

That’s to say nothing of having to go back out to a remote site again after it breaks. Like some of your counties, we’re one of those ones that are bigger than a couple of smaller states combined. We’ve got a few sites that just getting to them is 3-4 hours of driving the truck in often 4- low each way. I need to make it worthwhile when I go out to places like that.

In other news, I’m so far being pretty successful in spending less than 50% of my time in the office.  After the last 10 years of having an office job, there is little I want to do less than sit in the office.

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > jminer 12/20/2019 at 01:15

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My work provides me an iPhone and it is registered to my Apple ID not theirs. If needed I can remote wipe it and the first thing I did when I got it was factory rest it. I feel pretty OK about using it as my only phone. 

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 01:36

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Due to the situation, I’d probably get another Toughbook, even though they’re crazy outdated. If your work was a tiny bit less field and you could live with a cheap USB-Serial converter, there are a handful of laptops that are so sturdy that I’d seriously consider them, like the Dell (New) XPS and the Microsoft Surface Book 2. They can both be spec’d with discrete graphics in their 15" forms, too. Having carried both in the last year, I personally believe the SB2 is the sturdier of the two, and by a large margin in the 15" size . The problem is that neither one is well sealed for a really harsh environment; they’re more hardcore road warrior laptops for people that mostly work in offices.

CB > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 01:48

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I use a Toughbook for work. It's slow to boot in -40, but otherwise, it's a solid "eh". It loads the four programs I need just fine and battery life is decent. However, some models are incredibly customizable, which I don't know if it helps your decision, but it's cool to load it up how you want (extra battery, hard drive, car reader, biometrics, you name it).

Andrew > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 07:29

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Check out the Getac product  line. Http://www.getac.com/ Built rugged, less expensive, great options and a full bumper to bumper warranty included in the price. No uptick warranty charges.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 08:42

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I’m trying to avoid the serial-to-usb converter situation , although someday down the road I might have to resort to one . Getting some of the this hardware and software to play is already finicky enough. I’m hesitant to willingly throw more variables into the equation. My boss has a SB2 and loves it, but he also spends relatively little time out in the field (much to his disappointment ).

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > CB 12/20/2019 at 08:44

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That’s my only hesitation on a toughbook. Both our current one, and the toughbooks I used in the past in the Marine Corps and the police department were all solidly “eh” machines. Because they’re the gold standard for this kind of device, I’ll probably poke around on the customization a bit more to see if I can’t reasonably spec one that rustle my jimmies a bit.

Claes Adler - North of the wall > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 08:55

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Very well laid out description of what you’re looking for! I work with folks in search of rugged field electronic equipment every day and encounter circumstances like this almost by the hour. I’ve seen thousands of setups deployed and I’ve seen many testaments and many failures. Despite being a professional I’d like to share my experiences like we were sitting next to each other around a campfire and not a “pitch”.

Do you want a tool or a laptop? Many often make the mistake of thinking a computer is a computer. These ruggedized computers are tools that happen to be computers. Laptops you buy at a store are designed to be used in perfect environmentally controlled, stable, clean, circumstances. If you want to use a highly sophisticated electronic in a chaotic environment I highly suggest a purpose built rugged laptop. Far more often than not the most valuable metric in business is time and / or data. Having a cheap $400 laptop that can be replaced does not save the $20,000 lost from being down for a day or the extra costs to bring a specialist back out when the equipment is running. Life is chaotic and unpredictable if you’re using this tool professionally you don’t want to give yourself anything less than the best chance to do your job successfully.

There’s 3 “Major” manufacturers that offer truly ruggedized computers. Panasonic, Dell, and Getac. There are a few others out there that make claims but they are not as reliable. Zebra makes good rugged tablets but does not make any laptops. Durabook makes rugged laptops but I have not seen them firsthand. From what you said in your post the Panasonic Toughbook 55, Dell 5424, and the Getac S410 would be the most likely choices. One of those manufactures is an OEM of the computer. One is an ODM and one kind of plays in both while they do OEM manufacture some and they also pay 3rd parties to manufacture for them.

Look for the “Nit” rating on the screen. This is for brightness. You mentioned the CF-53 you have been using was not very readable outdoors and I bet it is not a touch model then. Non touch CF-53's only had 400 nits of brightness and you’d want at least 800 nits. You may not specifically want the “touch” feature but it’s typically hand in hand with the brightness you want for outdoors. I have touch on my laptop and I find it very helpful when browsing websites on the go. It’s much easier for me to scroll up and down the page with my fingers on the screen than using the tiny touchpad.

I’d highly suggest getting a model with a cellular modem even if you don’t currently need it. The industry is moving with landslide speeds towards field connectivity and with a highly regulated wireless market once a computer is manufactured it’s tedious at best to get FCC support to legitimately upgrade a laptop to have it. Look for the type of modem. For example a Sierra 7455 or 7511 modem is “Multi-Carrier” which allows you to use Sprint, Verizon, or ATT. Some spoke of having a separate hotspot or using your phone. Separate devices mean you need to remember to charge them and it causes extra troubleshooting when it doesn’t all just “work”. Technology is great when it works but very annoying when you’re trying to get the job done and you have to power cycle your jetpack. Using a 2nd device like your phone as a hotspot is also battery intensive on the device. If you forget to charge the phone or it’s battery doesn’t last you 2-3 days without charging it may put you in a bad spot later if the battery dies. I’ve also had many experiences when I did not have an embedded modem that connecting via a hotspot on my phone or jetpack did not give a stable connection. It would time out often and would frequently not work on VPN connections adequately.

Most laptops cannot be altered later. Be sure to add the features you want into the laptop prior to purchasing or look for a model specifically that you can update as you need to. I only know of one rugged laptop currently that lets you upgrade several major components on the fly.

I highly suggest looking at battery life. If possible ask for the “mAh” of the battery. Manufacturers use shamefully bad testing techniques to market the battery life. The manufacturers typically use testing standards like “MobileMark 2014" where they lower the brightness down to unrealistic levels, turn off wireless radios, overall lower the performance of the computer to levels that won’t be replicated in the field and publish the results. Marketed battery life is usually twice as long as a realistic battery life. mAh is not a manipulated metric. The higher the mAh the higher the battery capacity so the longer the battery will work under any circumstance short of defective materials.

All of those things considered I bought a Toughbook 55 myself. Get as close to “apples to apples” quotes to compare. You’d be surprised that despite the market reputation that Panasonic may be priced outside the market when compared to the Getac S410 or Dell 5424 with equal specs they are often very close in price if not only more expensive by a slight margin. I just built up as close a comparison of a Dell 5424 and the Toughbook 55. The Toughbook 55 was $400 less expensive than the 5424 based on online prices available.

The Toughbook 55 has fantastic battery life with the option of 2 6300 mAh batteries. That realistically can last you 20 hours of use. Panasonic advertises 40 hours. You can get the multi-carrier modem, it can have a 1,000 nit screen plenty bright for outdoor reading on a sunny day, and the best part is it’s actually expandable. If you decide you want a discrete graphics card to help with some GIS you can buy a discrete graphics module and just slide it in with automatic drivers downloaded for near plug and play. You can grab a little module to get a true serial port. You can add that 2nd battery if you need it. It’s the most versatile and it’s priced very well within it’s class of laptop. Panasonic is the only manufacturer that is truly OEM on their rugged laptops. Getac is a full ODM and Dell mixes between making it themselves and hiring outside folks to make it for them. 

Here’s a pretty good video I’ve seen online. I have no affiliation with the video author. If you’d like to talk more about it, possibly on the phone, or if you have any interest in trying one out let me know and we can touch base. I don’t want to be, “that guy” who shamelessly is trying to plug in their business interest. Human to human I feel the 55 is the best for what you described but you should absolutely look into your options, good luck!

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 17:07

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In that case, you have few choices. The only laptops I’m aware of with serial ports are Toughbooks and white box ruggedized notebooks, though I suspect they all use USB-Serial converters (hardware ones from FTDI are great) internally, so you might only be gaining the convenience of not having to keep track of the adapter for the times when you need one.

Allan > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 12/20/2019 at 19:45

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Id go with the 7220 tablet with the i K-DELL-AT k eyboard with it. It’s modular, snaps right in and has a full touchpad. It doesn’t require a kickstand like the one dell shows. They do have it listed for the 7212 but the modularity is the same.

Scott > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 12/21/2019 at 00:14

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To clarify, Panasonic toughbooks use true serial. It’s not a usb hub/switch inside. Dell used to fake serial in this manner but now uses true serial as well.

My advice to the op...buy Panasonic. It’s the best quality, and it’s not close. The cf-53 you’re not impressed with is OLD. The cf-54 just went EOL after 5ish years and the cf- 55 is now out. The real story is that your coworker’s cf-53 is still running. To Dell, rugged is a hobby that repackages commercial grade components. To panasonic, rugged is a core business.